The age question

[Phoenix]

In one of the threads on webhostingtalk, the topic has wandered and it appears that not only are 15 year olds running hosting companies (as we saw in this thread: http://forums.webhostdir.com/showthread.php&threadid=279), but one of them has been running his company for over two years:

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php&threadid=10840

If we are to serve the web hosting industry, we'll need to address that constituency as well. Should there be an age limit on membership (whether dues-paying or not)? Will an adult guarantor be required (except in cases where the minor is emancipated and is a legal adult)?

This should be an interesting topic to discuss.

[Tommy]

The important thing is business practice not age. Usually with age, comes experience and better judgement.

There are many adults out there who are shamefull at running a business so there must be many teenagers who are quite capable of runnning a good business.

This is a tricky subject. If we impose an age limit then we will be discriminating. The guarantor is an interesting idea and could be a compromise.

[ICS Canada]

I am a young host owner my self, and i really dont think age matters. Maybe there might be bad kids running hosting businesses but think about the good!(me):D

[James]

I think the stability of the hosts business is the most important factor. Age can sometime be more of a hindrance than a benefit. :sleep:

I think the guarantor idea might reassure some people, but generally peoples prejudices would probably put them off hosting with a minor.

To conclude ........ I think its better to base the criteria on the business than the individuals running them.

[Tommy]

Sure, but what if the host owner was 12 years old but the business was a solid operation? I suppose there must be a limit somewhere. 14 years and above? 15 years and above?

[James]

Whatever the limit you impose there will always be a case thats just outside the criteria.

I'd like to hear others thoughts on this?

[Phoenix]

Young people start and run successful businesses in many industries, hold public office, and are successful activists and organizers-in our area, there is a 9 year old who is running a campaign to prevent developers from building on a wildlife preserve.

The subject of mentoring came up on the thread I referenced and perhaps that may be how we can work in the younger web hosting proprietors.

how about this:

If a web host is under the age of 18, or they are just opening their business, then they can be an 'associate member' or 'junior web hosting scout' or whatever you want to call it for a set period of time. They would have a mentor, one of the full members, who would provide them guidance, answer their questions, and then at the end of their 'initiation period' or whatever, recommend them for full membership.

Apprenticeships are one of the oldest trade association traditions, back to the days when trade associations were the medieval 'guild' system. There were masters, journeymen, and apprentices.

[James]

Thats sounds like an interesting idea, but in reality most under 18's probably wouldnt admit to it incase they scare of prospective clients.

Of course once the accreditation has begun to carry enough weight, they would have to come clean.

[Phoenix]

Agreed, and in the case of the young man who has been running a hosting company since he was 12, he'd probably be bumped up to full membership almost immediately, provided he meets the quality and ethics standards. 90% of new businesses fail in their first year, and if he's managed to keep his going for over 2 years, he's doing something right.

[Sesran]

I would like to say that we adopt a policy like this:
We do not distinguish between age, race, greed, religion, sexual identity.

[Phoenix]

Originally posted by Sesran
I would like to say that we adopt a policy like this:
We do not distinguish between age, race, greed, religion, sexual identity.

We'd want the standard non-descrimination disclaimer that basically says if you are human, you can join.

And if the youngsters can pass the accreditation criteria, they can join as full members, otherwise with some probationary status while a mentor helps them prepare, but there should still be some process in place to ensure that they really do know what they are doing-and this should apply to any new host of any age.

And, if they decide to lie about their age and are found out, it would be considered a violation of the code of ethics and they'd be cast out into web hosting purgatory or something.

I'd like to get at least one of our younger hosting providers on the planning committee. I've invited one, but he's a bit busy with school right now, I believe-I'd like to get his point of view, as he's going to see things differently from us adults and he may have some ideas regarding this issue.

[James]

Originally posted by Phoenix
I'd like to get at least one of our younger hosting providers on the planning committee. I've invited one, but he's a bit busy with school right now, I believe-I'd like to get his point of view, as he's going to see things differently from us adults and he may have some ideas regarding this issue.

Can you say who he/she is? Or would they prefer to remain anonymous ;)

[Jaiem]

Age does matter in several terms.

In most areas a minor can't be held to a contract so that goes to credibility.

A minor also has many other responsibilities outside of the business. It would be hard to believe a 15 y/o who's in school most of the day and (hopefully) doing homework and studying at night can be responsive to customers. Not to mention sports and extra curicular activities, etc.

While I don't want to exclude any budding Michael Dells, the reality is many see this as a hobby or hope for a get-rich-quick idea. I do know a few teens who have built a decent hosting business but for many it's more a hobby than a business.

And that doesn't lead to confidence from customers.

[akashik]

I have to agree on that one. I know 15 year olds that can run rings around me on a server, and 14 year olds that can design in photoshop so well it makes my teeth hurt... but.

For an association to have credibility I feel that not only does it have a certain level of strictness, but also a level of retribution chould they fail to abide the rules. I was thinking last night that an area of the site that has legal links to internet law specialists who are willing to bat for EITHER team might be a good idea.

Why?

Well it'd scare off anyone who walked onto the site looking for a nifty badge to wear while they tried to rip off a load of customers. They'd see an area bristling with lawyers and realize this is the big house. It would also give both hosts and customers an avenue to gain legal rep in the case of needing them.

I don't see a law firm saying no (after all they get paid to do this kind of thing and the link is going to bring them traffic).

The age requirement however (see, this is getting on topic) is something to consider... If people are made painfully aware that mis-representing themselves in the guise of frauding customers out of their hard earned money they'll think long and hard about trying to join. If, because of age, they are immune to the law then you have a big-ass nasty dog with no teeth at all. At best it'll lift a leg and pee on their pants.

To me that's why WHG and verihost have failed... I checked out verihost a while ago via someone's membership 'badge' The information said something like

"Yeah they paid us so they're in, and we say trust 'em" :rolleyes:

I think instead of looking at these half-assed approaches we could do a lot worse than looking at Thawte or Verisign's approach. At the very least, somewhere inbetween

Greg Moore

[Jaiem]

Originally posted by akashik
I have to agree on that one. I know 15 year olds that can run rings around me on a server, and 14 year olds that can design in photoshop so well it makes my teeth hurt...

Just because one can code well and has a good artistic eye doesn't mean they can run a business well.

The dot-com crash of the last 12-18 months is proof positive of that.

If the purpose of this organization is to create an aire of confidence than technical know-how shouldn't be given the #1 slot. Not to be left out of the picture eitehr mind you.

[James]

I agree with both of you but I'd still like to hear it from a kids point of view. They might raise issues we havent thought of.

[Tommy]

This brings it all back to business practice. It should be about Web Hosting Business Excellence.

It's about how the host deals with customers and the attitudes taken towards ensuring they have the hosting service they paid for. They may not be able to fix things straight away but the steps they take to inform and assist the customer is very important.

We should not freeze out a good young host because of the age factor. We should include them under an apprenticeship.

[Phoenix]

I'll go trolling for kids and see if we can get them volunteer to contribute their voices to the planning committee. i know there are a number of them on WHT, but not sure about over on this board yet.

Should I offer them candy? Or just tell them that I'm a friend of their mother? :lol:

[akashik]

This is true as well... Starting a business is something my 2 year old daughter could probably do (granted she's pretty cluey), keeping it running through the dark hours is something else. Beyond an amount of time they've been running it'll be something that's hard to gauge without customer feedback or something akin to an interview.... or something.

Of course weaselboy has been running businesses for years, apparently made lots of money doing it, but is world famous for being public enemy number 1 :)

Greg Moore

[akashik]

Originally posted by Phoenix
Should I offer them candy? Or just tell them that I'm a friend of their mother? :lol:

Try candy - it always works for me :D

#Off Topic
Actually I have a great black shirt with the words
"Strangers have the Best candy"
written across the front in blood red. Oddly enough no-one has ever called me out about it - even most mothers of small children find it funny. Pretty girls talk to you too!


You have a good point though.. We should bug the kids (isn't that what us oldies are supposed to do anyway?). There must be some way to include them without diluting the possible legal thump we could achieve. Hmm, it's only 1am here. I have a few hours till my best ideas pop up :)

Greg Moore

[Jaiem]

Originally posted by akashik


Try candy - it always works for me :D

#Off Topic
Actually I have a great black shirt with the words
"Strangers have the Best candy"
written across the front in blood red. Oddly enough no-one has ever called me out about it - even most mothers of small children find it funny. Pretty girls talk to you too!

I like the shirt that says "To all you virgins - Thanks for nothing!" :)

(wandering topic, I know)

[Phoenix]

Note to self: keep these two away from the Junior Web Hosting Scouts. There could be trouble.

I'll see what I can scare up volunteerwise here and on WHT...

[James]

It was two 14 year olds that founded http://www.mydesktop.com, and then took it to IPO, and then at the grand old age of 17 went on to form www.buybuddy.com

They were millionaires long before they could legally visit a bar!

[Jaiem]

James,

As I said, any budding Michael Dells I want to meet (and maybe back ;) ).

But for every 1 millionare teen these are thousands who do it half heartedly or have very "questionable" business practices. I know several like that.

That's why age is seen as a way of calming nervous customers. Older is seen as more stable.

[Phoenix]

That's why age is seen as a way of calming nervous customers. Older is seen as more stable.

And more honest. A mature adult is seen as more trustworthy than a teenager.

All together now: Customer perception is market reality

I used to work for a man who is so crooked that when he dies they are going to have to screw him into his grave. He lied to his customers, cheated them, swindled them, and (Arr Matey!) software piracy was company policy. I committed many sins in the months I worked for him.

His customers trusted him blindly and had no idea how badly they were being taken. I finally got fired for refusing to allow the installation any more NFR copies or pirated versions of NT server-they had paid more than the going rate for a full, legal version, and that's what I ordered from the distributor and had installed.

The people who did most of the hands on work at the company, including setting up the machines and managing all the networks for our clients were a couple of very smart and capable people. One was particularly technically brilliant and a bit strange (he was so goth...), the other one was one of the most scrupulously honest, mature and hardest-working people I've ever worked with. They were high school seniors, both with very bright futures.

If asked who I'd prefer to do business with: a crooked adult or an honest teenager, honesty would win out over age any day. Generalizing based solely upon perceptions due a person's age can get you the shaft.

Customer perception IS market reality

[Phoenix]

Originally posted by James Cross


Can you say who he/she is? Or would they prefer to remain anonymous ;)

he goes by TheComputerGuy on WHT, just hasn't migrated yet.

[James]

Ohh, I've seen him on a few boards. He's really missing out on a nice thread here.

[Phoenix]

i just fired him off an email asking him to get a move on over here.

[James]

Now YUPAPA, has joined the party we should get some opinions from another viewpoint.

BTW: Nice site YUPAPA :D

[Phoenix]

i heard from the computerguy, he'll be back with us shortly-he's bogged down with exams this week.

I didn't even have to offer Yupapa candy, or tell him that I'm a friend of his mother. it was almost too easy-hope he's not really a middle-aged FBI agent. :D

[YUPAPA]

What am I going to say?

[Phoenix]

Sometimes it's hard to start the ball rolling, especially as it has gotten bogged down. That's what the chair's job is. To give it a good swift kick in the right direction.

We've been discussing whether or not to set an age limit for entry into the organization. The general consensus is that 18 would be the line below which it is unlikely to find people capable of operating a professional web hosting business.

If that is true, a number of people who have been running businesses already would be automatically excluded from joining the organization-strictly based upon their age. including one amazing young fellow who's been running his since he was 12 and is now only 15.

Other options have been discussed, such as mentoring the younger members until they reach 18-or the mentor determines they qualify for full membership, an apprenticeship program, or just allowing them to apply the same as a person over 18.

I invited you to join the planning committee so that we could get the viewpoint of at least one person who would be affected by whatever policies are determined, and to help us set policies that will encourage young entrepreneurs, give them a hand up when they need it, and not block them out strictly because of their age.

your voice on this committee is equal to everyone else's. This is not an executive board, just the preliminaries, so please, give your opinions and help us along on this issue.

[ICS Canada]

I Havn't been really following this thread but here it goes......

[ICS Canada]

I Havn't been really following this thread but here it goes......
I am a young host owner my self!I am probly the yongest around!I am 13 turning 14 in 12 days. In my idea i think any kid can run a business. As long as they are mature and try there best and dont hurt any1 i think its fine!I bet u i know more about business then some people on these boards!My father has taught me a great deal about business and i am applying it to hosting!

Chris:D

[Phoenix]

What? I thought you were a 'mature adult' from what I have seen in your posts.

You just never know who is behind the keystrokes. And this young person is an example of why young people shouldn't be excluded from the trade association.

[James]

I agree in priniciple, but there still are legal issues to consider. Especially given the US legislative system.

[ICS Canada]

Pheonix-
My point has been proved!Us young people are the futre of the hosting industry!We should have a say in everything!Me and all the young host owners strive to bring our best to our customers. They same as you!

hehe

Chris:p

[thecomputerguy]

If someone can be charged with murder as an adult, I think you can make an age limit on a "host club". 15-16 you just become old enough to realize females love the roses and roses cost a lot of money if you are broke.

Although I do feel that there will always be discrimnation against the young, and comfort found with old, it is just a society belief that needs to be broken, it needs to change to the person who can best do the job.

I mean legally you are in a mess, but I have not seen a lot of hosts require you sign a contract. If you have an elder a "mentor" that teaches you, I have had a few, you still have no one to sign the contracts for them to take responsibillity.

I just really feel that if you get to know the person, as from earlier posts said, kinda like a test,

Age thing, I have exams which may keep me away from 2 clients if they need me, others may be there all day, and if you are underage you can also get grounded!!!!!


Some of my thoughts that were thought up

****************Lighter note
I am not a FBI agent,
Phoenix
Who the world takes candy from a stranget, when do I get my 50 dollars for joinging this forum? LoL :)

[Sesran]

I have no problem with young hosts, as a matter of fact I think we need to get them in here following a code of ethics. I think some of the problems are with young people starting a business without being mature and then just ripping people off. I have seen it happen, while on the other hand I know young people who run rings around us older people. I had a designer helping me with a problem I was having and he amazed me with his knowledge. I later found out he was 15. I never again judged by age, but by what you have to offer.

[thecomputerguy]

Well i dunno if i could run rings around anyone in this forum, maybe just draw them in the dirt.

[poorapagal]

I agree to the fact that the young ones are the future of hosting, but keeping in mind as most of us have said the legal issues and as some people i have come across probably 7 out of 10 wouldn't actually join a host IF they found out a host admin was somewhere around 13, it's a totally different story if they never found out.

But not all kids are alike now are they, i knew this guy with a brilliant website, had a link exchange with him, and after two years he told me he turned 15 last week...i was shocked and was quite surprised that he managed to keep the site up and running.

The only thing we can say is welcome to the young ones, but it's a long way to the beginning (let alone our target), and the most important thing all of us should bare in mind is we should put down some ground rules , have them posted to all of the members, signed and put in a safe locker somewhere(or scanned and put in a safe directory on the web) .

[Phoenix]

Let's look at this from the outside, get into the mind of the customer for a moment. Here's a hypothetical business customer:

Joe Businessowner is 35 and has a small service-oriented business that he's run for years. He's now accepting payments via the web, as well as taking requests for service. He's using an SQL database to handle customer data including credit card information-he's using SSL. He exchanges a variety of files regarding the projects he's working on through FTP, allowing the customers to download the latest updates, and upload them with annotations.

His site has become an integral part of the way he does business as much as his telephone, fax machine and computer, he depends on it, and if there is an outage in all or part of his site, it can mean lost business, lost revenue and/or lost reputation. It is business-critical.

If Joe Businessowner knew that his host Mike Youngwebhost(regardless of accreditation, etc.) was only 15, would he be willing to trust his site to him? Taking into account the golden rule of marketing: Customer perception is market reality, and the fact that most adults are prejudiced against young people, males in particular (everyone 'knows' that girls mature faster mentally than boys do), how would he perceive Mr. Youngwebhost?

Would he see him as another business owner like himself, or would he see a kid, unreliable and untrustworthy?

[poorapagal]

Yeah Phoenix.. nice point. If i was the customer and have had no problems with that specific host, i don't think i would mind it if the host was somewhat 14, as long as i was getting the service i had expected and paid for. I would not be in any position to put my website (which is earning me some reasonable pocket money) in any danger by being on a server which is always down with no replies just because the host is out playing soccer with his buddies ( not being harsh, it's from experience :( ) and doesn't care if i am losing hundreds of dollars a day.

I believe that when you start getting replies from a host in most decent manner and ofcourse timely ones. A customer shouldn't care about the age of the person running their business. And if they start questioning the age factor over their business then i might say that the client probably has nothing better to do. I would send a "congrats card" to the host if i ever had a young host without problems..to boost their confidence a bit :)

[Phoenix]

The age question came up on another thread: http://forums.webhostdir.com/showthread.php?threadid=597

Mr Chunder (who doesn't have time to participate here) saith:



Cannot disagree at all with youngsters being entreprenuerial.

However, have to disagree with the idea that youngsters in the hosting business can put up a front that looks like a professional company. A customer comes along, buys some hosting and then finds he cannot get support becuase the kid is at college or is busy with exams and whatever !

WOULD YOU BUY HOSTING IF YOU KNEW A KID WAS RUNNING THE COMPANY ?

At the end of the day, a proper business with real adults working in a team to business goals with the threat of the pink slip, mortgage arrears etc. and all the other pressures that keeps us adults motivated in their jobs, do not compare with college kids running hosting companies in their spare time.

Summary:

1. Its great that kids can run business

2. Kids running hosting companies that require dedication, service and a lot of work etc. HAVE TO BE CAREFUL NOT TO LET THE INDUSTRY DOWN !



This looks to be a big sticking point. Once committee membership is closed, I'm going to do a poll and see where everyone stands on the issue in here.

[James]

I get the sneaking suspicion that Mr Chunder may have been burned in the past by a younger host.

[Phoenix]

Could be...that first paragraph of his did show a few scorch marks.

He does ask the question that is at the crux of the matter, and a lot of it has to do with the customers needs for their site.


WOULD YOU BUY HOSTING IF YOU KNEW A KID WAS RUNNING THE COMPANY ?

For a personal site developed by someone with a high level of technical knowledge who doesn't require that their site be up 24/7, and who can figure out what is wrong with their site when its a pilot error issue, someone who is running their hosting company as a side business-whether an adult with a full-time job or a young person going to school full-time-shouldn't be a problem.

But, if it is a business site developed by a less-technically oriented web designer, their need for a host who is always available for support becomes critical.

It is important that the customer know up front what to expect. All different businesses are run by people who have 'day jobs'. My old housemates run a side business doing 'home improvement', and their customers know that they are only available to work evenings and weekends-when they aren't drinking and partying, that is.

Perhaps instead of asking whether or not you'd do business with a host who is a 'kid', the question should be whether or not you'd do business with a host who is only available part-time.

[thecomputerguy]

Well I still feel host of any age that have a good rep should be allowed, are we going to let CIHOST in here because they are ran by adults but so many people have problems with them

[allera]

Originally posted by thecomputerguy
Well I still feel host of any age that have a good rep should be allowed, are we going to let CIHOST in here because they are ran by adults but so many people have problems with them

CIHost is everything we are against. This isn't an "if you're an adult, you get in" thing. Age is a very tiny little thing when compared to the big picture of what we are trying to accomplish. CIHost doesn't even come close, even if they are run by 100 adults who have PhD's in Business. :)

[Phoenix]

Originally posted by thecomputerguy
Well I still feel host of any age that have a good rep should be allowed, are we going to let CIHOST in here because they are ran by adults but so many people have problems with them

No, not unless they fix the problems they are having and can pass whatever other criteria are required of them.

The process for joining such an organization is going to require more than, 'hi, I want to join'. Age is not the criteria for membership. But it can be a barrier to applying for membership.

We are all committed to certain core values, such as ethics, honesty, professionalism, quality service, and fair competition.

Out there among the general population of the web hosting industry are others like us, as well as the Tacids, CIHosts and others.

Once a membership application has been submitted, there will need to be a process to weed out all the bad apples and pass through the good ones.

But what we are looking at here is:

Will we have an age limit up front that limits businesses run by minors from applying for full membership?

We can even muddy the water further by questioning whether a business run by a minor and staffed by adults can apply.

[krobi]

My past experience with CIHost was horrible. I switched over to dr2.net (run by a 16 year old), and that was the greatest decision ever. The support is quick. I did a test for support, and he (the owner) responded in less than an hour. It just proves that kids can sometimes run better businesses than adults :D. I have had no problems that he couldn't answer. If you ask him if he is 16 and owns a company, he will say, "It beats working at McDonalds."

[ebigroup]

Originally posted by Phoenix
Perhaps instead of asking whether or not you'd do business with a host who is a 'kid', the question should be whether or not you'd do business with a host who is only available part-time.

I think that comment raises an excellent point: the issue of age is often not as important as the issues of quality of service, service availability, price, etc.

Given the nature of the Internet and Web hosting, young hosting company operators -- if they choose -- can almost always keep both customers and fellow Web hosts in the dark about their ages ... as long as their businesses are up and running effectively, customers are happy and getting what they paid for, etc. So the question, 'Wouldn't a business owner rather have an adult for a host than a teenager?' is often moot: bottom line is, many times, the business owner will never know.

It seems that the best way to address younger hosting operators would be to focus on the business standards, ethics, years of operation, etc. that should be met for any professional member. That way, you can better identify both teens who are just in the business for a few months for "fun" and adults who think this is a way to "get rich quick."

[dapon]

I have one question about this subject. Lets say you have worked hard to build up a fairly sucessfull hosting company. Things are going well and it's time to expand. You need to hire a person to run the everyday operation of your business. Someone to keep things on track while you work on expansion.

Along comes a very bright 13 year old. Do you entrust the operations of your sucessfull company too him? Remember he has to make important business decision which will impact your companies future. Or do you hire the 40 year old with a proven track record?

[akashik]

personal opinion?

I'd go for the old guy myself if they're involved in any way with the serious uptime and maintainence of the accounts and the servers themselves.

My own opinion is kids should be out being kids, and not tied down to an industry that has extremely long hours, and provides a critical service to others.

Note: The start of this thread was about 2 years ago. :)

Greg Moore

[dapon]

Note: The start of this thread was about 2 years ago.

This is an age old question. I don't think it will ever go away. And I doubt that it will ever be agreed upon.

[akashik]

I tend to agree there. Both sides of the arguement have their reasons and opinions, and often both are correct to a point. :)

Greg Moore

[adjkhost]

Well I got something to say about this too.

In my honest opinion "kids" sometimes are beter than adults... and.... you gotta agree on this... they are cheaper. That's why people go to them.

This happens for a longgggggggg time in Web Design so, you should be expecting this to happen in the web hosting industry too.

I started designing web site when I was 16 y/old and this helped a lot, because today, being an adult I feel a lot more confortable than any other designer with my age.

On the web hosting industry I started when I was 17/18 but never had the volume of business that I have today. Like someone said in this thread.... more age... more experience. I agree with that 100%.

- Andre

[dapon]

I've asked this earlier but I will ask it again. Because it hasn't really been answered.

Let's assume for a minute that you have a web hosting company that you have built up over 5 years or so. You have become very successful, and have expanded your company to 50 employees.

Now it's time to grow again. You need to hire a Vice Pres. to run the business while you are away. You have 2 candidates to choose from. One is a 16 year old kid with several years of internet experience under his belt. Heck, he can even design a fair web site. The other is a 45 year old with a business degree and many years of business experience. He doesn't have much internet experience though. Who are you going to trust your company too?

Remember that the 16 year old can't sign contracts. He really doesn't have any business acumen. Does he know anything about labor law? I doubt it. I don't care how smart he is.

So while there are teenagers who can learn the business IMHO there aren't any that can really run a real business. Not my business anyway. I will gladly hire them and let them work for me but the Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniacs, and Bill Gates are few and far between.

Every teenagers argument is that they did it so all teens can do it. Good for you. You may have done a great job. You may know ten times more about the internet than me but I would be willing to bet that few teens have been as successful in business as I have. Because I have life experience, business experience, and a lot more to loose than you do.

This isn't a game for me. Not a hobby I can do after school. This pays my house payment, my car payments, my boat payment, my food, and everthing else. It's my contention this is the reason adults do it better. This is why the largest, most successful companies are run by adults. This is why I would only trust my company to an adult.

Don't go thinking I am bashing teens. I'm not. I'm just saying that some internet experience doesn't give you business experience. I will publicly admit here that a lot of teens are a lot smarter than me when it comes to the tech side of hosting. But they have to be willing to admit that they don't have my business nor life experience. Or my Business degree.

So, if you want to work for me I would hire you. But you will not help me run my compmany. I worked to hard for it and have to much invested in it.


:)

[Jaiem]

I would remind people that the vast majority of high flying and spectaular crash&burn dot-bombs of the last 2 years were owned and/or managed by very very young people. Not teenagers but 20-somethings with a "way kewl idea man!"

I see this same problem with general IT recruitment, even in major companies. The thinking is younger is better when it comes to technology as though youth=tech ability.

I like to use another example: If you needed an operation would you want a doctor just out of medical school or one who has been practicing for many years? If you needed a lawyer would you want one with a freshly minted degree or one with years of experience in practice?

Not everyone can be or will be Michael Dell.

[dapon]

Originally posted by Jaiem
I would remind people that the vast majority of high flying and spectaular crash&burn dot-bombs of the last 2 years were owned and/or managed by very very young people. Not teenagers but 20-somethings with a "way kewl idea man!"

I see this same problem with general IT recruitment, even in major companies. The thinking is younger is better when it comes to technology as though youth=tech ability.

I like to use another example: If you needed an operation would you want a doctor just out of medical school or one who has been practicing for many years? If you needed a lawyer would you want one with a freshly minted degree or one with years of experience in practice?

Not everyone can be or will be Michael Dell.

While I was employed at Verio I had numerous younger people work for me. The youngest was 17. They knew their stuff about the internet and made a very good living while there.

If any are reading this, this is not bashing you; you know what I think of all of you. But this is another example of inexperience. Some of these guys were making over $100,000/year. They drove Escalades, Navigators, and Mercedes. Had $10,000 rims on their cars. Wore a lot of gold and jewelry. Had the latest, greatest gadgets. From all outside appearances they where very successful.

But this is where their young age showed up. They were being evicted from their apartments, their credit sucked. They did not take care of business. Does it mean they weren't knowledgeable about the internet? No, it means they aren't mature enough to take care of business. I've seen it over and over again.

So no matter what teenagers think there is more to running a successful business than being a good technical person. And there isn't much you could say to change my mind about it. I will admit that there are exceptions to every rule, but they are just that, exceptions. Not the norm.

[northwindwebhost.com]

Hehe, Dapon, seriously its nothing against you but something you said kinda got my attention.


This is why the largest, most successful companies are run by adults. This is why I would only trust my company to an adult.

Quite frankly, this isn't really a fair remark. You see, the reason why some of these "adults" are making millions is because they have been working hard at it for years and years.

I find this a bit unfair because if a teen indeed decided to go into the business, and they work at it hard, you never know if they will become the next Bill Gates or not.

Remember, Bill Gates wasn't always a multi-billionaire. He started out at his garage before graduating from Harvard with a group of friends and decided to make the first pc that did nothing cept make sounds. I am pretty sure he didn't have his business degree, but he was sucessful. Why? Because he saw something, he said that his dream was to put a pc in everyones home.

Again, its nothing against you dapon. I am actually 21 living in NY and in my opinion, if a teen has the time to run a business legally, then I say let him. If I hard to choose between a 16 and a 45 year old, I wouldn't decide this based on age but rather their experience, and knowledge. That is why there are such things as Interviews. :)

[dapon]

Again, its nothing against you dapon. I am actually 21 living in NY and in my opinion, if a teen has the time to run a business legally, then I say let him. If I hard to choose between a 16 and a 45 year old, I wouldn't decide this based on age but rather their experience, and knowledge. That is why there are such things as Interviews.

Not a problem Phillip. But this is my point. Teens don't have experience in running a business. The only way I know to get experience is by....well, experience. Pay your dues. Earn it. There are to many teens trying to run hoisting companies today. And even you have to admit, the majority of them are doping a horrible job.

And everyone always mentions Bill Gates. He was the exception, not the rule. If you want to mention him then you have to mention Timmy of WHT fame. In case youi don't know who he is, he is the kid that ripped everybody off. Has started numerous hosting co. and taken a lot of money from people.


Quite frankly, this isn't really a fair remark. You see, the reason why some of these "adults" are making millions is because they have been working hard at it for years and years.

My point again. And as soon as I see a teenager that has worked hard for years and years I will interview him to be my vice president. Until then he can start out as an exemt employee and learn the business from a business side. Get experience, and someday he can help me run this business.

Just being a computer whiz at 14 doesn't mean much to me. Tell me about sexaul harrassment laws. Explain some labor laws to me. Explain overtime law to me. What about kids under 18 working for me? What hours can they legally work? Do you know the difference between exempt and non-exempt employees. What makes a employee eligiable to be non-exempt? What about indepenant contractors? Payroll taxes. Quarterly taxes? ROI? Write-offs? What aboutr leasing buildings and equipment? Should I lease my car or buy it as a personal vehicle?

Bring me a 14 year old that can answer these plus other business questions I would ask and he still can't do the job. Because I do business in California and the law here says that kids can only work certain hours and not past a certain hour. They have to have a work permit from their school and I have to report their hours to the school.

So, let them grow up and get experience just like everyone else had too. Then let them try to run a legitimate company. A compnay where they can sign a legal contract. I don't care how fair it seems, it's reality. When I was 18 I didn't think the drinking age should be 21. Said it wasn't fair. The sign of a teenager is one who thinks life isn't fair. And I was know different at that age. I wish I had all of these problems when I was 16 and knew everything.

These are some of the very basic things a business owner should know. Very basic.

[northwindwebhost.com]

You know, if we really searched hard, I am sure we can find a teen that can answer all those questions. =)

[dapon]

Originally posted by northwindwebhost.com
You know, if we really searched hard, I am sure we can find a teen that can answer all those questions. =)

You are probably right Phillip. But I wouldn't bet on it. I have nothing against teenagers. I used to be one. I know, it was a long time ago. Trust me when I tell you that I was one of those know it all teens too.

I owned my own business at 20. I owned a very sucessfull Nautilus Fitness Center. Had over 50 pieces of Nautilus equipment. Had a staff of 16 full time employees at it's heyday. Thought I knew it all. Let's just say I found out the hard way that I didn't. It was a $50,000 lesson at the young age of 23.

My reason for sharing this is to say I learned the hard way that there is a lot more to running a business than most people think. I wish I would have paid more attention to those older and wiser than me back then. But I was a extremely intelligent kid who thought he knew everything.

And the sad thing is that there are many more just like I was out there. They think they know it all. And to them I say have fun. But the odds are in my favor that some day I will be able to tell you "I told you so." But the one thing about youth is they don't think age and experience is worth anything.

[Jaiem]

Phil - It's a lot like the old saying that someone may be a great engineer but that doesn't mean they are going to be a great manager.

There are a 101 business things you need to learn in school and 1001 things they don't teach in school and you can only learn in life. Hopefully a smart person will hire someone who knows what to do but start ups often can't afford that level of experience.

BTW, from what I've read Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard. He refuses to have anything to do with them.

[dapon]

Originally posted by Jaiem
Phil - It's a lot like the old saying that someone may be a great engineer but that doesn't mean they are going to be a great manager.

There are a 101 business things you need to learn in school and 1001 things they don't teach in school and you can only learn in life. Hopefully a smart person will hire someone who knows what to do but start ups often can't afford that level of experience.

BTW, from what I've read Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard. He refuses to have anything to do with them.

Did you also know that Steve Wozniak flunked a BASIC programming class at Berkley. The proffessor didn't know he was the guy who invented it. This was back in the early 80's.

[northwindwebhost.com]

Did you also know that Steve Wozniak flunked a BASIC programming class at Berkley. The proffessor didn't know he was the guy who invented it. This was back in the early 80's.

I didn't know that. =)

[bright-byte]

:) Hi All,
After reading this thread and viewing the different points of view, I have to agree that age should have nothing to do with it, however let me clarify what the reality of the matter is.

I also started a small company at the age of 14 ( nothing to do with the internet) and it was quite successful, however the reality is that if something had gone wrong and my clients wanted some sort of recourse or compensation, I legally could not have been held responsible for my companies or my actions at that age as I was not of legal age to be part of, draw up or sign a business contract.

Therefore in reality if a hosting company (or any business) run by a person under the legal contract age was to have severe downtime or any other problems that would incur some sort of refund, re-imbursement or compensation and they were either not able or prepared to give this, the only person that would suffer would be the customer.

Now before you say, arrrr yes but that is also true with people over 18 that run business's, just try and remember the last time a 14 year old was sued over a business contract.

In conclusion, I reiterate that age should have nothing to do with it, however just as I did when I was 14 and was running my first business, your customers should be made aware of how old you are so they can make a better informed decision as to whether or not they wish to use your services, and while this may seem unfair to the younger business associates out there just remember that you will ultimately go allot further by being honest with your clients than you would if you withheld or lied about information.

And as a side note being younger can in a lot of situations, work to your benefit, as many people will see it as a genuine attempt by a young person or persons to be a positive and responsible member of society and therefore will be more inclined to purchase your services.